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Nerfing the mission player again

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Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 17:33:00 - [1] If its true, then its incredible lame. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:11:00 - [2] Originally by: Sadayiel basically rubbish lol you muppet, try to acutally counter the OP with an actual argument not just lame trolling Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 18:16:00 - [3] I wonder if the character sheet will change....again. Wonderful new content! I liked the old character sheet better tbh, the one that didnt clog up 30% of the screen. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.03 19:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Death Kill on 03/09/2006 19:51:28 Edited by: Death Kill on 03/09/2006 19:50:28 Originally by: Sadayiel 1st I talk trash ..... Now the only ppl that can whine about the less Sec status gain it's wannabe pirates that like to gank in low sec then hide running missions to get back in empire wich is just lame. My oh my, arent you teh h@rdcore-one? Quote: FYI i have 5.0 sec status, i ganked in low sec with the consequent sec lost, i never made anything bigger than lvl 3 missions, and mostly afk from time to time. And as my sig says i'm a Merc not a pirate. Yes, your kill tropical bananas And? Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 05:18:00 - [5] Originally by: The Enslaver Missions aren't even really in the spirit of what EVE is... Working for NPC's? Pfft... Like you never worked for one Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Sadayiel IMHO Only a wannabe pirate who luv to gank in low sec then hide in empire, can whine about the Sec Status Oh ok, now we get it. So its ok by you because of 'wannabe pirates who like to gank then hide in Empire' and not because you actually had a thought through and intelligent reason? I see. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 18:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Death Kill on 04/09/2006 18:04:28 Originally by: Auldare When I need isk i do lvl4 missions, AND I feel they need nerfed. The isk you can make for them is way too much for this one factor. You dont need anyone else to do them for a good isk/hour ratio. CCP have stated time and time again that their vision for eve is a game where players interacting together is it's one defining feature. This is why CCP add things to try and make 0.0 more appealing It doesn't take to be on long each day to help establish connections and network within eve, all it takes is social skills. Missions right now is a cancer on eve and this vision, It may attract a larger player base but it's dropping it's quality. You make ALOT more rating in 0.0 than from lv4 missions. If you got the skills, you can warp from belt to belt and wtfpwn any spawn without having to warp out. The same cant be said for lv4 missions though. Also, missions already got nerfed a while back, not just loot but also bountys. The ones that now are calling for lv4 missions to be nerfed are the ones that mission *****d a year back or so when lv4's were teh uber. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 18:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Auldare Taking into account having to establish contact with a 0.0 alliance to allow you to rat Yes, and this is quite the challenge isnt it? Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 18:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Cattraknoff Most 0.0 corps/alliances don't let people npc all day. They make you fight, mine sometimes, whatever. Most people who don't contribute more than their 10% npc tax don't last very long. Agent who...farmers, on the other hand, don't have those problems Its not hard, you can even rat while waiting for a fleet to assemble. To claim that (to put it blutnly) that you cant npc until you get rich in an alliance is false. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 18:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Auldare It's no challenge done it plenty of times myself. but at least it took encountering another eve player So if a pair of guys, or a group of people do lv4 missions together because they think its fun, they are not encountering other players? Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.04 18:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Auldare Added a post while you were writing yours it looks Death about group work. working with people on a lvl4 mission is great and i honestly applaud people who do, if all lvl4 missions were done this way.... well read my above post Maybe they should become alot harder, not nerfing payouts/sec gain etc etc? Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 09:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Lazuran I have to disagree with you there. Mission running is in my experience still more profitable on average if you're good at it and if you count in all the LP rewards and good loot you're getting. You dont do missions do you? The mission loot were nerfed MONTHS ago. And its far more easy to warp from belt to belt and bbq the puny dual/tripple battleship spawns and their pathetic escort than to warp into a deadspace mission and get insta webbed/scrambled while 4 or more battleships hit you with everything you got. Oh and theres always the npc sentryguns. Sorry, you dont have a clue Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 12:42:00 - [13] lol no one can be this dense. Originally by: Lazuran I've done missions more than enough to tell. Some rewards seem to have been removed, but you can still get good implants. Oh you mean the +3 implant in the storage silo found in the extravaganca misison? Quote: I think you're just clueless about missions. No serious mission runner would whine about sentry guns and scrambling frigs in L4 missions like you do, they're very easy to deal with. Oh dear, youre such a tool. Im not whining at all, im just pointing out that lv4 missions is alot harder and time consuming than ratting in 0.0. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 12:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Lazuran NPCing in my usual 0.0 area has become so boring and unrewarding (esp. the loot hauling) that I've resorted to ratting in an Interceptor and only looking for Shadow Serpentis late at night. I can find and kill 2-3 of them in half an hour on good nights and sometimes I get good loot, but that's not something you can do all day with similar success. Lol, so hauling loot in a multiple level deadpsace pockets is less time consuming than hauling loot from belts with instas? Just like you have to pick agents with good quality you have to pick 0.0 with good quality. If you live in syndicate you not only have one of the easiest rats but the spawns are also very generous. You simply dont have a clue. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 12:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Lazuran They may be harder, but nothing to worry about and this has nothing to do with the subject, which is profit/hour. Profit/hour=ratting>lv4 Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 16:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Sammiel Ummm, the difference being that the good 0.0 pockets are limited to 1-2 people per system in order to maintain the excellent profit rates. Lvl4's suffer no such restriction. And multiple deadspace pockets are just as easy to loot. Here is a hint, turn in the mission after making bookmarks in each deadspace pocket. When the mission is finished, the deadspace regions will disappear, but the cans remain, allowing you to just warp to them directly in a hauler with tractors. I daresay its easier since the cans are grouped so much closer between warp-in points. Additionally, I have done mission running recently, and the rewards are very comparable to 0.0. First off, agent offers at the 15k LP point offer a better than 1k ISK/LP conversion ratio, which is super. Second, access to markets means the limited loot you do earn is easy to convert directly to ISK. Thirdly, its incredibly consistent money. Sure you may hit 4x faction spawns in 0.0 in one day, but you also might go a month+ without one. Also, its not limited in how many people can access one level 4 agent at a time, unlike a good 0.0 system. Also, the problem with high sec mission running is that it is essentially an ISK faucet without the accompanying sink. If it is too profitable it can lead to ISK inflation. Moving things to low sec can help alleviate that due to PvP losses. Mudflation is a Bad Thing, and I really don't want to see it occur here. Limiting the rewards of high end mission running is probably a decent way to do so. It has nothing to do with zomg1111 carebears111, and more to do with striking a balance so the economy in Eve runs well. Also, insurance isn't a true faucet, it just reduces the cost of losing a ship. I defy you to find me a ship that you can buy/build and insure and make more our of the insurance than you just spent. If you could do so, it would be simple to make an endless stream of money appear. Ok then, we agree to disagree. I lived in 0.0 for two years and now I have decided to start all over again and try carebearism for a change. I find missions to be alot more boring and harder to make isk than 0.0 ratting ever were. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 19:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Sammiel Which once again points to their main advantage, they are totally predictable and repeatable. But the same goes for ratting. People cry to have lv4 misisons nerfed because they claim they are to easy to farm. Ratting in deep space I could easily move up and down through belts find a proper spawn, press f1-f8, minimize EVE, open eve-o and browse the forums and open the game everynow and then when I heard the sound of exploding npc's and possibly to watch my cap/tank. People complain about people farming missions solo and wants them nerfed, but you can just as easy if not easier farm rats solo in deep space. And the whole 'its dangerous in 0.0' is not correct. A 0.4 is probably going to be alot more dangerous. (unless you npc in hed-gp,p3 etc) Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 20:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Sammiel I also don't know what mythical 0.0 space you went to that had good spawns set up and that no one else ever ran. Hlw (yes hlw) I had 2 domination spawns there and one hauler spawn in one day and all before dowmtime.....lj-y...plenty of belts lots of spawns. 10 people could easily share that system. Klyn and surrounding systems omw-4w Thats 3 different sides of the map from the top of my head. Ofcorse sometimes you had the be 'first' so others would f-off when they saw the system were already taken. and if I entered last and it was full, then all I had to do is find another one. Not much of a challenge. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.05 20:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Noriath The simple fact is that living in 0.0 is very hard, the PvP element is only a small part of it, the much bigger part is the fact that there is no economy out there unless you build it, and then someone can come along and destroy it, so you have to protect it, which you simply can't do all on your own. Yes, its not like alliances build ships/sell ships and modules for their members because they have every bp in the game Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:18:00 - [20] Originally by: The Enslaver As I've said to someone else - your refusal to argue with me with your main, says a lot about you. Perhaps, but his arguemnts are just as valid. And that you chose to use that argument to counter his, says a lot about you. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Krulla Edited by: Krulla on 05/09/2006 20:51:42 Originally by: Tia Kohi Originally by: Bosie Abou time, Eve is all about risk vs reward and quite frankly there is very little risk running missions in empire and a lot of reward. Stick all them high quality and level agents in low sec please, at least then we might get some traffic and a market out here. Bosie. This is what's called a flat out lie. There is tons of risk doing level 4's solo on empire. I know many a person that has lost their BS or worse to them. So please stop saying there is no risk in empire missions. If you lose a BS to level 4s, you fail at the internet. Congratulations. The stupidest reply in this thread yet. Dont worry, I think your record is safe. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.06 13:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Sammiel Try this, though I seriously doubt that any of my points will be addressed. High sec mission running introduces into the game an unacceptable ISK faucet (bounties + missions rewards + refined loot) without an accompanying ISK sink. Low sec has an ISK sink through PvP combat. 0.0 has an ISK sink through POS and outpost building as well as PvP combat. Trading doesn't need an ISK sink since it is wealth transfer and not generation. Same with production, though that has BPO costs as a sink also. A small faucet in high sec is completely acceptable, a large one is not. It leads to the specter of mudflation, which is a Bad Thing. It seams to me that you are downright comparing deep space with Empire. You shouldnt. Deep space is, and always will be space thats not been colonized by the empires, thats why there are nice ore and good rats and crap market. Empire, is colonized, its a big trade hub where the different empires offer contracts to piltos willing to accept them. Its only natural that there is isk flowing there. What you are asking for is a nerf of the game itself. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Sammiel How does my point at all relate to any of that. If 0.0 space had ISK generation without an appropriate sink it would be just as bad, but it has sinks. My point had nothing to do with any empire vs deep space analogy, in fact I even covered empire professions that don't suffer from the same problems. Because alot of the money generated in Empire leaves empire. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.06 14:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Sammiel But my point wasn't really relating to empire. In retrospect my reply were indeed completly off Anyhow, I just completed a lv3 retribution just to see how much I got from it.....out of 25ish cruisers about 4 of them dropped loot. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:13:00 - [25] Originally by: Sammiel Way to not address any of the points brought up earlier regarding the economy. If theres anything hurting the echonomy its macro miners and the genuine EVE players paying their house loans from ebaying. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.06 16:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Hellspawn01 This has nothing to do with this topic. Plz discuss those in a seperated thread. What? He seams to think lv4 misisons and their uber loot is hurtfull for the echonomy. It isnt. The things mentioned above is. Recruitment
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.09.07 05:30:00 - [27] Edited by: Death Kill on 07/09/2006 05:30:36 Originally by: DropZone 187 That is funny - I see what, 3 maybe 4 mission runners rambling on for dear life in this thread? The number of normal players who justifiably want to see it nerfed in line with the risk vs reward theme obviously outnumber the mission runners if you go by the ratio in the thread. Oh dear, you make me want to belive in eugenics. You cant be serious? You argue like religious fundamentalist. Quote: It is also funny that you single me out. Is it because I have posted an actual threat to your way of game play for which you have no recourse other than quiting and going back to WoW? Afterall, I would just be using normal gameplay mechanics to do so - fathom that, playing within the rules..... Listen n00b, alot of people have been to 0.0 and went back. Personally I lived there for 2 years. In the end, what made me tired of it were children like you. This community used to be really mature, everyone used to do their thing and were happy about it. Then came people like you along and changed all of that. Quote: Anyhow if any of the merc corps are reading this thread, post what the rates for contract would be to pod these guys back to 300k sp. Two are currently in corps (which undoubtably will quit to noob corps once war dec'ed) and one already is a noob corp. Logisitics on the security hit might be an interesting task but you all know how to get around that... Post with your main viziam boy, I got 10 bill I would be happy to burn on podding you back to whatever rock you crawled out from. Quote: Even macros miners currently have more risk than mission runners do right now with active anti-macro groups so I don't see why the mission runners shouldn't miss out on all the fun. Go cry to mommy if you don't like it. lol you must be American, there is no other possible explination. Quote: As stated previously, you are welcome to do the same. In addition, bring your smack talk out to 0.0 - leaving it on the forums is definitely a sign of true cowardice. Oh yes, sitting in 0.0 reading the smack of people sitting in a safespot. Your type of fun, not ours. Recruitment

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